Excuse me sir, shouldn't you be paying for two seats?
April 30th 2008 02:09
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I don't want to be rude, but sometimes it's just so hard not to be. I usually prefer aisle seats on a plane because I frequent the toilet too much due to weak bladders and I don't like disturbing my fellow passengers by having to get past them all the time. It was no different this time, when I flew back on a QantasLink flight on the way back to Sydney from Coffs Harbour. Next to me, was a rather fat *sorry* large man (sometimes I wonder how people can be completely politically correct) and even before I sat down, I observed our surroundings and I felt sorry for him. So I asked if he would like the aisle seat so he can have more leg room.
By no surprise, he agreed and we swapped seats and immediately I regretted my decision to be nice. Due to his body size, his arms at rest were prodding half way into my seat for which I had to squeeze myself as close to the window as I could to breath, and his bottoms were squeezing in between the space available from the arm rest to our seats, taking up just as much of my seat as his arm.
It took him a while putting the seat belt on. The seat belt, fully extended, did not reach all the way across his belly, causing him having to squeeze everything once again and be extremely uncomfortable the entire flight. Both him, and me.
I held onto my bladders for the 1 hour flight. I could not bring myself to ask him to get up to get me pass, after all that effort trying to get into his seat.
Ok. I really really really don't want to discriminate people because of their body size, but for the comfort of everyone around them as well as themselves, is it time we introduce a small extra fee on top of their normal flight fare so they can occupy two seats for the sake of comfort?
This is not just a debate about Excessive Baggage anymore. This issue can potentially start a big debate on human rights. But what about my rights being also a passenger on the plane, who also paid for the ticket and hoping for the same comfort?
Say, FAT is a very relative word. So let's not use that as a measure of whether we should put an excess on the ticket. Perhaps - if you cannot fit the seat belt in its fully extended length around your waist... let's put an extra $20 on the ticket and we'll let you have two seats to be comfortable!
And I haven't even mentioned about the body odour.
By no surprise, he agreed and we swapped seats and immediately I regretted my decision to be nice. Due to his body size, his arms at rest were prodding half way into my seat for which I had to squeeze myself as close to the window as I could to breath, and his bottoms were squeezing in between the space available from the arm rest to our seats, taking up just as much of my seat as his arm.
It took him a while putting the seat belt on. The seat belt, fully extended, did not reach all the way across his belly, causing him having to squeeze everything once again and be extremely uncomfortable the entire flight. Both him, and me.
I held onto my bladders for the 1 hour flight. I could not bring myself to ask him to get up to get me pass, after all that effort trying to get into his seat.
Ok. I really really really don't want to discriminate people because of their body size, but for the comfort of everyone around them as well as themselves, is it time we introduce a small extra fee on top of their normal flight fare so they can occupy two seats for the sake of comfort?
Say, FAT is a very relative word. So let's not use that as a measure of whether we should put an excess on the ticket. Perhaps - if you cannot fit the seat belt in its fully extended length around your waist... let's put an extra $20 on the ticket and we'll let you have two seats to be comfortable!
And I haven't even mentioned about the body odour.
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Comment by Louie
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Comment by Anonymous
Seats should fit the full range of normal human body widths and lengths, not just the 'average' person. It's unfair to penalise people who are larger than average size (ie 50% of us), in the same way it's unfair to penalise people based on other inherent characteristics, eg race, gender, sexuality.
And before you say 'lose some weight', many people are large by nature (and shoulder width and leg length are not measurements that change through weight loss).
Also, I've no idea whether airlines will allow you to buy 2 seats in the same name... and you'd bet they'd want twice the fare for them, not a small supplement.
So if this is a problem, complain to the airline! Your larger fellow passengers would love a more reasonably sized seat, believe me. It'd be worth it for everyone, even if fares had to go up 10%.
Comment by AmyHuang
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I understand there are people with larger frames, but I am not talking about those people. I am really talking about those who really DOES have a weight problem. I also know that sometimes obesity can be in the genes, yet there really are ways to control it. I don't blame that passenger. I also do hope there can be such a thing as just one or two larger seat designs on the planes for those who need them, and is probably a better option than paying for two tickets.
Comment by Sara Dobson
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I know its not air travel well I have a kind of airtravel tale but more about that in a minute.
First when I lived in London and used to catch the train to work, by the time it got to my stop there was standing room only, but everyday I used to see one really fat guy taking up 2 seats. And I wondered if really he should pay twice the fare as some of us had to stand when quite frankly there should have been another seat in that carrige.
Even last year in Sydney when I was heavily pregnant I never took up more than one seat on the bus. Some times though I had to stand because one guy needed almost three seats on the bus.
Wanna hear the air travel one? Well I was on a plane from London to New York there was a guy behind me the couldn't put the arm rest down because he didn't fit in the seat. But that obviously had no effect on me because he wasn't next to me.
Comment by Cheryl J
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I do agree with anonymous that airlines make very small seats and with very little leg room for tall people as well but I guess they have to draw the line somewhere and someone came up with what is a supposedly average size. In a perfect world bigger people shouldn't be penalised but neither should others by spending their journey with someone taking part of their room. Unfortunately this is not a perfect world.
I don't know how this one can be solved. There is no way an airline would ever give two seats to someone without them paying double fare which is really unfair, it seems exploitive to make fatter people pay extra for business class but neither should the airlines give a free upgrade because someone is overweight - then it is discriminating against pocket sized people like me who fit in economy seats. Plus if the airlines did make all the seats bigger then they would fit less people on and ticket prices would go up for everyone.
I do agree with you though, if a seatbelt (not the seat itself) doesn't fit then that should be the standard for paying an extra fee for a business class upgrade. Those seatbelts are pretty accommodating.
Comment by Morgan Bell
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i know, i know, of course we cant, we just have to suck it up and listen to the screaming when the air pressure hurts their little ears . . . we cant exactly have the little tykes swimming between melbourne and sydney can we now?
i guess essentially on domestic flight we all have to suffer a little for 90mins to accomodate for everyone who needs to use the service: mums with bubs, morbidly obese, giants with long legs (thats me!), the hummers, the snorers, people who turn their magazine pages loudly haha
i find travel absolutely excruciating every single time i fly, im uncomfortable, my legs dont fit behind the seat (i pray for a spare seat next to me so i can put my legs to the side) HOWEVER i do think if a fellow passenger is sitting half on your seat you should complain to the airline as you didnt even get the tiny square of space you were supposed to be allocated . . . its not fair to you and you should be compensated rather than the large man being fined, and if a vacant seat was available the flight attendant should have relocated you
Comment by Sonya 1
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I sat next to a woman once who was way to big for her seat (and I don't mean tall, I mean fat). When I asked her if she could at least keep her arms out of my seat, she called me a lot of things I don't want to repeat here, as f I was the freak for being a healthy size.
I used to be a flight attendant 12 years ago, and we had a seriously overweight person about every two weeks then. I fly at least once a month at the moment, and there is always a seriously overweight passenger near me. I'm sure the majority of those don't have a medical excuse for their size. So make them pay.
Comment by AmyHuang
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Cheryl - it is a tough one. And as I keep saying, I really don't mean to offend anyone with this debate - and where do you draw the line? I mean, if we really want to delve into discrimination as you said, if they gave larger people larger seats or a free upgrade then it becomes 'unfair' to smaller people. If they have a seperate section for larger people, then that in itself can also become a discrimination.... What do you do?? Thank you very much for your input!
Morgan - I hear you. There certainly isn't leg room for tall people and I guess it comes back to the same issue with 'wider' people. And there certainly isn't rules enough to satisfy everyone on the plane (re: your comments about babies, magazine page flipping etc) because every one have their own little comfort zones! - I actually did have a debate about babies on planes - there was some interesting debates about that one
Sonya - as a flight attendant - how do you respond to 'complaints' if anyone does say something about their fellow passengers? I feel that sometimes it's their attitude that can be a problem too, thankfully the gentleman I was sitting next to was so nice I couldn't bring myself to ask him anything, as I already saw he knew he was making everyone uncomfortable...
Comment by Jill Browne
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I have written a few articles about the situation in Canada, as a result of a recent ruling on the "One Person, One Fare Policy".
Starting in 2009, domestic Canadian flights will have to accommodate people who need additional room in order to fly. This will not be for the merely fat - the size of the person has to be a barrier to them travelling in an ordinary seat. The same policy will allow persons with disabilities to take an attendant with them at no added charge - under strict conditions, though.
I don't know why people object to the ruling, but some feel it's unfair. Seems to me everyone will be more comfortable if large people are given more space.
The one argument I have not seen resolved has to do with cost. The airlines' estimates of what it would cost them were far higher than the tribunal's estimate (a dollar or two on the average ticket). The tribunal concluded the added cost was not a significant problem.
Here are the links to my articles for anyone who is interested:
One Person One Fare Policy
Obese Passengers Win
Airlines and Disabled Passengers
One Person, One Fare.
Happy flying all
Comment by AmyHuang
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Comment by Brad Gaylard
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Let's cut to the chase - sure some people have genetic underpinnings to their obesity, but the vast majority are fat because they don't exercise enough or they eat too much unhealthy food, or a combination of the two. There's no point tip-toeing around the issue... too many obese people are living in denial of this because it is an inconvenient truth.
Now, consider if the airlines made their seats bigger. The result of this would be fewer seats on a plane = increased ticket costs for everyone to make up for the seating shortfall. Add that to increasing fuel costs and you've got flights becoming unaffordable for a whole lot more people.
Is it fair to increase the costs for everyone, based on the requirements of those people who maintain an unhealthy body mass index?
So, I believe that, yes, morbidly obese people should pay for two seats if they can't fit into one. Perhaps it may even act as a catalyst for the radical lifestyle shift required to overcome such a condition.
Comment by AmyHuang
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Comment by Laryssa
on a flight from boston to baltimore, I had already taken my seat near the window, when an obese woman resembling a very large pear plopped down next to/on top of me. Foolishly, I had not thought to put down the armrest (ie-barrier) as soon as I sat down. It would have provided some protection, but if I tried to put it down after the fact, it would have literally severed her ample saddlebag clear off. No kidding, I spent the whole flight smushed over to the window, with this woman's excess thigh flesh covering half my leg, praying the stewardess would recognize the pleading look in my eyes and intervene.
No such luck.
And although I admire the displays of compassion for the obese on this blog, I detected no such compassion from my fellow traveller, who made NO attempt at adjusting herself after PLOPPING down on top of my leg. Even when things became...sweaty.
Lessons learned: The armrest is a key defensive tool, and must be engaged immediately. Don't feel bad for someone if they don't feel bad for you, and speak up.
Comment by AmyHuang
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Thank you for your input. I think compassion need to go both ways, and when it doesn't, that's when things get nasty - as you said - don't feel bad for someone if they don't feel bad for you.
Unfortunately no easy solution here, just like everything else in this world that involves two people of different kinds.
Thanks again.